Anonymous student feedback: A discussion about sexism

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Anonymous student feedback: A discussion about sexism

Post by maven » Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:33 pm

lingua_franca wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:29 am
1.) The practice of anonymous student module evaluations needs to end. There is research to show that they're biased against young female academics, and I have just had a lovely illustrative example - a critique of my hairstyle, my choice of footwear, and my decision not to wear makeup ("She needs it"). What's the betting that was a male student? We have to write a response to the evaluations, explaining how students' feedback will be taken on board (!). I am going to enjoy crafting my response to that...
5.) My mood hasn't been great today. I blame the unkind module evaluations and lack of sleep. Time to get into my pyjamas and snuggle into bed.
This is entirely inappropriate and needs to be reported to the university, not given the dignity of a response. It says way more about the author than about you.
Maven.

Wise men talk because they have something to say, fools because they have to say something - Plato
The fool thinks himself to be wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool - Shakespeare

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Re: 5 things I'm thinking today. . .

Post by JB99 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:33 pm

lingua_franca wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:29 am
1.) The practice of anonymous student module evaluations needs to end. There is research to show that they're biased against young female academics, and I have just had a lovely illustrative example - a critique of my hairstyle, my choice of footwear, and my decision not to wear makeup ("She needs it"). What's the betting that was a male student? We have to write a response to the evaluations, explaining how students' feedback will be taken on board (!). I am going to enjoy crafting my response to that...
2.) I ate some very tasty jackfruit this evening. It's a new thing to me and I need more of it in my life.
3.) Do I or do I not go to Lebanon this summer?
4.) I scored 63 on my dressage test and narrowly missed out on the fourth-place rosette. I'm quite chuffed with that, as it's only been six weeks since I returned to riding, after a two-decade hiatus.
5.) My mood hasn't been great today. I blame the unkind module evaluations and lack of sleep. Time to get into my pyjamas and snuggle into bed.
That is shocking, deeply disturbing, and ultimately bullying. What would possess someone to think of writing that about somebody? I really hope the feedback is not from a cohort of trainees?

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Re: 5 things I'm thinking today. . .

Post by lingua_franca » Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:24 pm

Unfortunately it's very common. I signed into Facebook and at the top of my newsfeed was a post from another woman academic, asking, "Can I join the queue for support and reassurance during evaluation season?" A colleague at the university where I did my first postdoc has been trying to get anon evaluations scrapped on the grounds that research has demonstrated they aren't an effective measure of teaching ability and they are biased against female academics. A good friend who teaches in the drama department is hurt because one evaluation for her module reads, "I came here to learn how to act, not to sit and read bull" (only more coarsely worded). In my experience they are a way for students to vent their dissatisfaction about grades in a way that can't be traced back to them.

JB99, these aren't trainees, these are MSc students. To be fair to them, as a cohort they are much more constructive in their feedback than undergrads. Of the evaluations that are in so far, I have only had one that is gratuitously unkind, and I suspect I can identify the man who wrote it - he has made no secret that he dislikes the module and dislikes me. Other evaluations are dispiriting in that they say things like, "Lingua did a fair job of trying to teach this course, but I wish we could have had a more experienced professor." I think this is where implicit bias comes in, because we weren't splitting the atom in there, we were doing a fairly basic introductory course that is well within my scope. There is no reason why they would need the most seasoned academic in the faculty to teach them those things. If people's main criticism of me is 'Lingua isn't someone else', then I really wish they would save my pride a little bit and be more generous on the Likert scale when it comes to saying how well I explained things or how useful the activities were. :evil:
"Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
"Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
Piglet was comforted by this.
- A.A. Milne.

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Re: 5 things I'm thinking today. . .

Post by JB99 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:42 am

lingua_franca wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:24 pm
Unfortunately it's very common. I signed into Facebook and at the top of my newsfeed was a post from another woman academic, asking, "Can I join the queue for support and reassurance during evaluation season?" A colleague at the university where I did my first postdoc has been trying to get anon evaluations scrapped on the grounds that research has demonstrated they aren't an effective measure of teaching ability and they are biased against female academics. A good friend who teaches in the drama department is hurt because one evaluation for her module reads, "I came here to learn how to act, not to sit and read bull" (only more coarsely worded). In my experience they are a way for students to vent their dissatisfaction about grades in a way that can't be traced back to them.

JB99, these aren't trainees, these are MSc students. To be fair to them, as a cohort they are much more constructive in their feedback than undergrads. Of the evaluations that are in so far, I have only had one that is gratuitously unkind, and I suspect I can identify the man who wrote it - he has made no secret that he dislikes the module and dislikes me. Other evaluations are dispiriting in that they say things like, "Lingua did a fair job of trying to teach this course, but I wish we could have had a more experienced professor." I think this is where implicit bias comes in, because we weren't splitting the atom in there, we were doing a fairly basic introductory course that is well within my scope. There is no reason why they would need the most seasoned academic in the faculty to teach them those things. If people's main criticism of me is 'Lingua isn't someone else', then I really wish they would save my pride a little bit and be more generous on the Likert scale when it comes to saying how well I explained things or how useful the activities were. :evil:
I had no idea of this issue. I imagine, also, that principles of online disinhibition due to the anonymous nature of computer feedback forms contribute toward the negative reviews (although this would not explain the gender bias).

It is a shame that such sexism (regarding the comments made by the individual) still exists today, even among those that are highly educated and should know better. The problem difficult to acknowledge as a male because I rarely see it happening, which I presume is the result of most examples of sexism occurring one-to-one or among circles that I do not associate with. The idea of implicit gender (and race etc) biases existing is a worrying one for me; I'm very good at challenging irrational explicit thoughts, but implicit biases seem somehow more difficult to control. This is why I am such an advocate for measures such as removing names from application forms, making interviews points based, and I suppose removing the anonymity of student evaluations.

Either way, as said by Maven, it says a lot more about them than you.

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Re: 5 things I'm thinking today. . .

Post by miriam » Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:43 am

JB99 wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:42 am
I imagine, also, that principles of online disinhibition due to the anonymous nature of computer feedback forms contribute toward the negative reviews (although this would not explain the gender bias).

Sadly, toxic elements of masculinity like bullying and inappropriate comments play out all the time on social media, so this comes as no surprise to me. Mention nothing controversial at all and you will still experience sexism and inappropriate comments fairly regularly, just by being female in the world, and especially online. Mention sexism/feminism at all as a woman online, and you get a torrent of personal comments about your appearance and threats of violence and sexual violence. Its really disturbing. You only have to look at Gamergate or the abuse experienced by any feminist or female politician on social media to see it. Even I've had creepy messages at times.
JB99 wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:42 am
The problem difficult to acknowledge as a male because I rarely see it happening, which I presume is the result of most examples of sexism occurring one-to-one or among circles that I do not associate with.
And that's exactly it. Men, particularly men who have progressive values, rarely see it or have normalised it into the background. That's why I did my blog on unwanted sexual approaches, as someone said to me he thought they were really rare, whilst I said they were the bread and butter of every woman's experience. But we still have toys that are gendered, stupid products that are made in simpler pinker versions that cost more for women, and lots of sexualised male-gaze-centred activities being promoted as "empowering" (like pole dancing, or erotic photographs, or makeovers) and women being photoshopped into unrealistic ideals before their images are published. 20 years ago I'd have told you feminism had already won, and we didn't need to worry about it any more. Since then I've learnt to see the sexism, and its everywhere and a real problem. Women earn less for the same work. Women are less likely to progress to senior positions, even within professions that have more women than men in junior roles. Women are still expected to pick up the majority of the domestic burden, even if they work outside the home, and are more likely to take on the majority of parenting. And of course, a hundred times more so within some religious communities and more broadly in parts of the developing world. Millions of women still experience FGM on the basis that being allowed to enjoy sex would make them unfaithful and promiscuous and therefore of no value as a bride. Millions of girls are still forced into marriage without consent and/or before the age at which consent is meaningful. I could go on.
Miriam

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Re: 5 things I'm thinking today. . .

Post by JB99 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:57 pm

It's interesting that it has only been since I started working as a professional, started living with a female tenant who is a working professional, and found a life partner, that overt experiences of sexism started to become apparent. I was shocked the first time my housemate told me her boss had disregarded her extreme work stress as her just "being emotional".

My view is that there are three main barriers for male engagement in feminism:

1. Men's limited exposure to sexism, as we have already discussed. I do not think this is willful ignorance necessarily (although it often will be), but is still ignorance.

2. Male attitudes to women. Again, I'd like to be able to say that sexist attitudes are rare, based on my own experiences, but I am fast learning that they are not.

3. Statistical ambiguity in relation to the causes of observed gender differences. Unfortunately, creating a comprehensive statistical model of societal-level processes and gender formation is practically unfeasible. Therefore, there are questions and suppositions that cannot be statistically answered. A common example is, is it due to biological, parental, social, or societal factors that women are less interested and confident in STEM? There is no accurate means to answer this question, and yet people erroneously form strong opinions about them. Some have face validity, such as the influence of media on gender roles, but what is the actual statistical contribution of any given factor? What I notice is that there are gender differences in the relative attribution to each of these factors, which I think fuels this "gender divide" and unhelpfully can actually deter men in feminist debates (e.g. because they, often erroneously, see gender issues as a biological fact that cannot be changed), rather than enroll them to the cause.

I notice as a personal reflection that I cautiously stay away from strong opinions on this subject, which in itself will be inflammatory to some. One thing I am sure of; I will only receive more exposure to sexism as I train to be a psychologist and work with clients of both genders, and I will make sure I do everything I can to be on the right side of history in this process.

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Re: 5 things I'm thinking today. . .

Post by lingua_franca » Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:44 pm

I think the anonymity definitely encourages a viciousness that wouldn't be there if students had to put their name to the evaluations (if only because of the threat of being disciplined for inappropriate comments). I strongly believe that students should be prepared to own what they say. If staff were to start issuing anonymously written reports on students to students, it would be considered bullying, so I don't understand why this isn't the case in reverse. It also feeds into an academically damaging consumer mentality, when what we need to be fostering is collegiality instead.

One really difficult thing for me is that I put a lot of pressure on myself to do well and I have a tendency to be hyper-critical, and it's difficult to resist that tendency when I have to wade through a slew of unkind remarks. Gratuitously personal ones about appearance aren't so bad - I can discount those as obviously irrelevant - but the ones that attack my teaching are worse, because then the self-doubt gremlin starts asking, "But are they right?" The second difficult thing is that while the evaluations include the opportunity to add feedback in your own words, only those with an axe to grind tend to make use of that opportunity. So for the statement "The lecturer's approach to students has been good", I have 50% of the class clicking 'strongly agree', 30% agreeing, 10% neutral, and 10% strongly disagreeing...but it's only those who have ticked 'strongly disagree' who have actually elaborated, and they often try to speak on behalf of the class (e.g. "Students thought that..." rather than "I thought that..."). It would be easier to feel OK about myself if there were some roses mixed in with the thorns, but the written feedback is almost entirely negative even though the percentage scores are not. No matter how sanguine and pragmatic your view, it isn't fun to deal with an onslaught of comments telling you how bad at your job you are.

Anyway, I think I have hijacked the 5 Things thread long enough. ;) Onward and upward! I may make a separate thread on how people cope with negative feedback and self-critical thinking, if anyone else would be interested in that discussion?
"Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
"Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
Piglet was comforted by this.
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Re: 5 things I'm thinking today. . .

Post by miriam » Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:42 pm

JB99 wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:57 pm

3. Statistical ambiguity
I also think there is ambiguity about lots of issues. Do some women unwittingly (or knowingly) reinforce sexism by playing along with established tropes? Is this them expressing the free choice feminists want for every woman, or something harmful to the greater movement? Is affirmative action ever the right thing to do, or does it reinforce the sense of their being a lower bar for certain demographics?

Even something as simple as consent can be ambiguous. If a woman is happy to go back to someone's house and to kiss, but then doesn't take an active part or shows some resistance when the man persists in pushing towards having sex. Is that her conforming to societal pressures to seem reluctant and "play hard to get" to preserve her value, when she is there of her own free will and giving implicit consent? Is he conforming to societal values that men might need to be persistent to get past this to the fact that she really wants to have sex? Is that just the typical way things play out? Or is this scenario potentially rape unless there is a literal discussion of whether she wants to have sex in which she feels no pressure to comply? I know there have been times when I didn't say a clear no, but would rather the guy had picked up signals to desist. I've blogged about this topic a bit.
JB99 wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:57 pm

I notice as a personal reflection that I cautiously stay away from strong opinions on this subject, which in itself will be inflammatory to some. One thing I am sure of; I will only receive more exposure to sexism as I train to be a psychologist and work with clients of both genders, and I will make sure I do everything I can to be on the right side of history in this process.
Partly based on my own experience, I think that people are scared of the straw feminist - some horrible, ugly, angry, militantly right-on person with no sense of humour who makes you feel bad about stuff that is perfectly normal (see anticipated reproach). We are scared of being that person, or associating ourselves with them, so we are wary of speaking up too loudly. And we don't recognise that they are a fictitious parody of a really wide range of people* constructed by those who are most threatened by the message**. The minority of people in any movement who do resemble the image that is being caricatured are typically those who have needed to make their message strong and sustained in the face of unremitting adversity. And its even more difficult for men to speak up as they often feel like it isn't their fight, or that they don't want to take over.

*probably the majority of the population, given the only requirement to be a feminist is to share the belief that women are equally valuable and should have equal rights to men.
**Its the same thing as the multi-millionaires currently claiming to be speaking up for the man on the street against the elites to avoid the inevitable march of progress towards closing the loopholes they exploit for personal gain. But that's another story.
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Re: 5 things I'm thinking today. . .

Post by miriam » Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:45 pm

lingua_franca wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:44 pm
Anyway, I think I have hijacked the 5 Things thread long enough. ;) Onward and upward! I may make a separate thread on how people cope with negative feedback and self-critical thinking, if anyone else would be interested in that discussion?
A very interesting detour, but yes, good idea!
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Re: 5 things I'm thinking today. . .

Post by JB99 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:09 pm

miriam wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:42 pm
I also think there is ambiguity about lots of issues. Do some women unwittingly (or knowingly) reinforce sexism by playing along with established tropes? Is this them expressing the free choice feminists want for every woman, or something harmful to the greater movement? Is affirmative action ever the right thing to do, or does it reinforce the sense of their being a lower bar for certain demographics?

Even something as simple as consent can be ambiguous. If a woman is happy to go back to someone's house and to kiss, but then doesn't take an active part or shows some resistance when the man persists in pushing towards having sex. Is that her conforming to societal pressures to seem reluctant and "play hard to get" to preserve her value, when she is there of her own free will and giving implicit consent? Is he conforming to societal values that men might need to be persistent to get past this to the fact that she really wants to have sex? Is that just the typical way things play out? Or is this scenario potentially rape unless there is a literal discussion of whether she wants to have sex in which she feels no pressure to comply? I know there have been times when I didn't say a clear no, but would rather the guy had picked up signals to desist. I've blogged about this topic a bit.
I agree completely.These are not simple issues, nor are the answers. I've seen similar court cases that cover the grey areas surrounding alcohol. Someone had enthusiastically consented when extremely intoxicated but had no memory of the event the next day. The man was tried of rape. Is the woman accountable for making decisions under the influence? Did the man take advantage of her if he was also drunk? Was he also highly intoxicated, and should it work the other way? I'm not sure I know the answers to all of these questions. Either way, I don't know all the details of the specific case, but the example is quite common.
miriam wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:42 pm
Partly based on my own experience, I think that people are scared of the straw feminist - some horrible, ugly, angry, militantly right-on person with no sense of humour who makes you feel bad about stuff that is perfectly normal (see anticipated reproach).
The topic of attacking a straw feminist is an interesting one. In some senses, I agree. The majority of feminists (including myself) that I speak to are nothing like the straw feminst that you describe. However, I have engaged in similar discussions with people in the past who found my views (that I think are really quite moderate) as offensive. I see similar debates that become highly inflammatory on one of my old university's Facebook group, such as whether or not encouraging someone to jog while wearing headphones is classed as victim blaming. I acknowledge that you are generally only going to see the most polarised views on Facebook, because it is only those with strong opinions that will bother to respond, but these encounters have left me feeling a little "on edge" about sharing my opinions on some of these issues outside of my closer circles.

I guess it is just a very vocal minority that bias peoples' perceptions of the views of the average feminists. In retaliation, non-feminists then attack a straw man and see feminism in a black and white way as bad.

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Re: Anonymous student feedback: A discussion about sexism

Post by mungle » Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:39 pm

Lingua_Franca,

Those feedback comments are shocking and highly inappropriate. It sounds like there is some education needed on how to give feedback and something to be addressed at least at department level. One way the University could frame it is that being able to give appropriate feedback is an important graduate employability skill.

Sorry you've had to deal with this and do hope can gain more perspective. It is always tough to judge your own teaching from just one group/class. Really, you need to be able to get feedback from several groups to get some balance. It may not feel like much consolation but the large percentage who were ok with your teaching really would have elaborated if they were unhappy! Over time, I hope you'll get other feedback from students, peer observers, your own reflections, informal feedback during sessions etc. and have more balance from this wider range of sources. There will always more to learn and ways to improve and all you can actually do is keep learning, reflecting and growing in your teaching.

Or....you can just spoon feed the students everything to ensure they get high grades without thinking too much and never ever set any challenging work....and watch your student feedback soar ;-)

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Re: Anonymous student feedback: A discussion about sexism

Post by lingua_franca » Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:10 pm

Thanks, mungle. As a pretty junior academic, I've only been evaluated by students four times. Two sets of feedback were broadly positive, and all criticism was constructive. One set of feedback was awful, but this was a module where I had taken several students to task for plagiarism and given lots of low grades on the first assignment, and there was a very aggrieved and adversarial feel in the room after those low grades were released. Now there is this batch. I've been observed once by a peer, who gave me a rating of 4 out of a possible 5 ('very good'). That was when I was completing a HEA portfolio. I don't think I've been teaching long enough to notice any meaningful trend, and I know this on the rational level, but one nasty comment can still stick in my head like a poisoned fishhook. One person has written this time that I make students feel guilty and like a nuisance for asking questions in class, which really hurts, as I love getting questions and I always try to nurture students' curiosity and enthusiasm in any way I can. It might help to put a psychodynamic hat on and think about that critique in terms of projection and transference, but it still stings to be told that.

Here is a helpful summary of the research on the relationship between student satisfaction scores and the gender of the instructor, for anyone who is interested to read more on the topic: https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/impactofsocials ... WezyXtS-LA
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Piglet was comforted by this.
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Re: Anonymous student feedback: A discussion about sexism

Post by miriam » Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:19 am

I think the same thing plays out in lots of places.

The 38 positive reviews of my book still don't make the three negative ones sting any less. Especially as they say things that aren't factually true or I have little say over (like the book claiming to be written for lay people but actually written at a level only a graduate could access, or the fact they thought it was about something else because they guessed from the title and didn't read the blurb, or the fact I borrowed other people's ideas without credit - when the example they gave is something I explicitly credited in the text and referenced) or when they take personal pot-shots ("the author is clearly very attached to herself").

Likewise when I do training I've come to learn that whilst the majority of people really love the sessions and my average scores are very high, there are always some critics. Often they moan about things I can't control (the temperature in the room, the comfort of the chairs, the toilets or catering in the venue, or the distance they had to travel to attend) which I can brush off fine, but sometimes they really want to make the point they knew it all already and it was a waste of time, or that they disagreed with something I said, and express that in ways that are hard to gain anything constructive from.

I've just started to assume there are some people that you can never please, or who are in a state of burnout or antagonism that feel the need to express that towards every available target. So I try to hang on to the overall scores and the nice examples of feedback instead!
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Re: Anonymous student feedback: A discussion about sexism

Post by lingua_franca » Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:14 am

I am
miriam wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:19 am
I think the same thing plays out in lots of places.

The 38 positive reviews of my book still don't make the three negative ones sting any less. Especially as they say things that aren't factually true or I have little say over (like the book claiming to be written for lay people but actually written at a level only a graduate could access, or the fact they thought it was about something else because they guessed from the title and didn't read the blurb, or the fact I borrowed other people's ideas without credit - when the example they gave is something I explicitly credited in the text and referenced) or when they take personal pot-shots ("the author is clearly very attached to herself").
The factual inaccuracies puzzle me. I don't know if people genuinely believe what they're saying, or if they make these things up out of malice, which would just seem...odd. I have one student who has complained that most people left after my lectures and didn't stay for the seminars, because it was all so boring. Only two people consistently left after lectures, and I had a big seminar group (so big that I had to subdivide it into four smaller groups). I honestly don't know how they could have written that in good faith, but it seems like such a peculiar lie to tell.

One woman told me that she keeps a file of positive feedback that she can dip into whenever she's brought low by evaluations. My fear is that it's 'cheating' to somehow focus only on the good! :P I think I need to learn to trust my own judgement. I do have a sense of what works pedagogically and what doesn't, but that sense can be dimmed and numbed if I spend ages looking at negative comments. I need to retain it.

To return to the gendered theme, there is a big discussion happening on social media among some female colleagues who also find this time of year tough. One of them (a very experienced academic) has observed that she has been called 'intimidating', and she attributes this to the fact that she isn't stereotypically soft and maternal in her approach. She also linked to a study showing that provision of chocolate chip cookies influences student perceptions of how well they're being taught. I hadn't thought of this before - the possibility that women are not just being judged unfairly against the standards in the evaluation form, but that students might have different standards for us to start with. That would make sense, and it does help me to put the barbed comments in context.
"Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
"Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
Piglet was comforted by this.
- A.A. Milne.

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