Trainee section?

The guidance for posting on www.ClinPsy.org.uk and any comments on the forum, suggestions for improvements, etc. Also information about our e-magazine, Aspire, and how to contribute or download your copy.
Post Reply

Do you think we should have a trainee section?

No, I don't want a trainee section (I'm not a trainee)
2
3%
No, I don't want a trainee section (I am a trainee)
1
2%
Yes, an open section (I'm not a trainee)
22
37%
Yes, an open section (I'm a trainee)
14
24%
Yes, a private section (I'm not a trainee)
3
5%
Yes, a private section (I'm a trainee)
8
14%
I don't care or I don't have a strong opinion either way
9
15%
 
Total votes: 59

User avatar
schizometric
Posts: 1229
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:20 pm
Location: Midlands

Trainee section?

Post by schizometric » Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:25 am

This is something I've thought about for quite some time and I wondered whether it would be good to open it up to discussion, although ultimately the decision is of course down to Miriam. I thought it might be worth considering though. BoCo and I, and a few others have discussed this in chat and have come up with (largely) the following thoughts:

I know there aren't many of us to start with, but I think that a lot of trainees effectively leave the forum after getting on the course, and rarely return unless it's for a paper etc. I think trainees are a valuable resource to the forum, and it might encourage more to stick around after getting accepted; not just prolific characters (who may stick around anyway to a degree) but others too. It may even attract people to the forum who are on courses and didn't know about it (not many of them I suspect) or thought it was mostly for APs etc etc. I don't think the forum has much of a 'trainee voice' which is a shame, since it's a forum for Aspiring clinical psychologists, and we are technically still 'aspiring'!

I think it would be a handy place to discuss course stuff, perhaps a bit safer depending on how it works, and perhaps might come across as less of a 'I'm on a course, my wallet's too small for my fifties and my diamond shoes are too tight'.

I'm not sure of the best format for this though. To make it 'safer' as it were, it would need to only be viewable by trainees and team members. However, this could be tricky to moderate as we don't need to be HPC registered like qualifieds. I guess people could request access and be reviewed or somesuch system? I'm not averse to having it open either, but I wonder whether some trainees might. I would be more than happy to help out in managing such a section.

Well, that's my tuppence anyway. What are people's thoughts? Would it be detrimental to the rest of the board in terms of removing trainee input? Would it attract trainees and keep pre-course people around, making it more appealing to contribute overall?
Last edited by miriam on Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Moved to the correct section of the forum
Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

User avatar
BenJMan
Team Member
Posts: 2216
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:16 pm
Location: Lancashire

Re: Trainee section?

Post by BenJMan » Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:53 am

I know this has been discussed before, on several occasions if i remember correctly. The view was always that creating a seperate section for Trainees would remove not only valuable input from trainees on other sections, but also trainee type discussions that are valuable for a lot of pre training people as well.

I think overall I'd probably go along with what I've said above, I certainly as someone pre training would feel like I was loosing out on valuable discussions which I could use in my future practice if they were closed off for trainees only. Your mention of an 'open' section for trainees is an interesting one, though I wonder what it would eventually accomplish, if it was open to everyone, then any questions posed could inevitabely be placed into one of our existing sections. You could create a section something akin to 'Trainee Life' .. which would cover issues that trainees face, whether it is broad enough to be its own section I'm unsure. We inevitably end up with the question; have we brought in more voices who contribute to the rest of the forum or have we seperated off trainees who might have contributed and now only explore one forum section'

I suppose the most interesting part of your question to me is whether we do in fact loose trainees who would otherwise stay around by not having such a section. I'm not sure of the answer to that and without some research I don't know if anyone could be.

I agree wholeheartedly that trainees are a very valuable resource and definitely fit into the site's demongraphic of 'aspiring clinical psychologists'. My feeling is that the creation of a seperate section would be more of a 'perk' than a necessity. Whether that and a possible increase in trainee numbers is a valuable enough reason in itself might be worth exploring.


P.S. The trainee section thing was melded into the 10 page discussion about creating a qualified section as well.. the discussion went on for a looooong time and created some very mixed feelings within the forum, I'll be very interested to see how this one turns out :) It might be valuable to see how much the qualified section has impacted on the forum, has it helped us to retain qualified psychologists or just those we had already? Would the same occur for trainees??

P.P.S I also wonder how I'll feel if/when I ever become a trainee.. will my position change?
I think a hero is any person really intent on making this a better place for all people ~ Maya Angelou.

User avatar
miriam
Site Admin
Posts: 7952
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2007 11:20 pm
Location: Bucks
Contact:

Re: Trainee section?

Post by miriam » Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:37 pm

I would note that the qualified section is fairly quiet. It serves a purpose but it has has not really worked to get more qualified people active on the main forum.
Miriam

See my blog at http://clinpsyeye.wordpress.com

User avatar
ell
Moderator
Posts: 2384
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2010 12:45 pm

Re: Trainee section?

Post by ell » Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:37 pm

This is a really interesting idea and I can certainly see the logic behind it. Some random thoughts from me.

My concern is that the forum would end up getting ever more segregated. Would we end up then with an AP section - to combat the 'I'm an AP, my wallet's too small for my twenties and my emerald shoes are too tight' thing? I loved this analogy, and I think it is a good reflection on how trainees may not feel able to be completely open about the stresses of training. I wonder if there can be anything done to make trainees feel more comfortable?

An open trainee section would be good for us non-trainees to learn about important issues in training, but I do see there may then be a problem with trainees only wanting to look at that section and not contributing to the rest of the forum. To a certain extent I wouldn't blame them - why put yourself through reading those anxiety-riddled progress threads if you aren't in the process!? - but then we could lose out on the valuable contributions that trainees would make to other, non-training related, discussions.

I think this discussion brings up a really good question though, one that I had been pondering myself recently a bit - why don't people stick around once they get onto training? It would be interesting to ask those people. Maybe even start a thread to ask? There are some people who were prolific posters and whose contribution dropped significantly after getting on training, but are still about. They may be able to shed some light on it. Is it purely a selfish thing, and the forum just isn't so useful for trainees' needs? Is it because training is quite time-consuming and they just don't have so much time to offer? Is it because training suddenly puts you into a new social group and suddenly trainees are out and about a lot more?

The qualified section was brought about to increase the number of qualified CPs on the forum. Does anyone have any data on if that worked in terms of recruiting and retaining qualifieds, and whether there was a knock-on effect on their contributions to the rest of the forum? Some information on this might give us an insight into the merits of a trainee section.

User avatar
Gilly
Moderator
Posts: 1862
Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2009 9:30 pm
Location: Doodling on Paint somewhere...

Re: Trainee section?

Post by Gilly » Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:41 pm

Part of me wonders whether or not a trainee section for the purpose of peer support/peer supervision might be worth considering, rather than just a broad section exclusively for trainees?

that might allow you to post the stuff away from us underlings may find it anxiety provoking, but at the same time allowing a safe environment to discuss more personal course stuff?
You're not calling for help, are you?! ;)

"The problem with quotes on the Internet is that it is hard to verify their authenticity" - Abraham Lincoln.

User avatar
BenJMan
Team Member
Posts: 2216
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:16 pm
Location: Lancashire

Re: Trainee section?

Post by BenJMan » Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:43 pm

Gilly wrote:Part of me wonders whether or not a trainee section for the purpose of peer support/peer supervision might be worth considering, rather than just a broad section exclusively for trainees?

that might allow you to post the stuff away from us underlings may find it anxiety provoking, but at the same time allowing a safe environment to discuss more personal course stuff?
When ever I see you post Gill I have the instant reaction of wanting to do what family guy does to Meg and just post 'Shut up Gilly.' I couldn't tell you why.. I just find it funny :D
I think a hero is any person really intent on making this a better place for all people ~ Maya Angelou.

User avatar
ell
Moderator
Posts: 2384
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2010 12:45 pm

Re: Trainee section?

Post by ell » Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:47 pm

Gilly wrote:Part of me wonders whether or not a trainee section for the purpose of peer support/peer supervision might be worth considering, rather than just a broad section exclusively for trainees?

that might allow you to post the stuff away from us underlings may find it anxiety provoking, but at the same time allowing a safe environment to discuss more personal course stuff?
While I wouldn't begrudge the trainees somewhere safe to discuss course stuff, I don't think it should be done in order to prevent us underlings seeing potentially anxiety provoking things. I think the honesty about training (when it happens; I do appreciate it might be repressed sometimes) is a really important and helpful element of the forum. If we shut away all the negative stuff about training, is it not going to turn into even more of a Holy Grail?

User avatar
Gilly
Moderator
Posts: 1862
Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2009 9:30 pm
Location: Doodling on Paint somewhere...

Re: Trainee section?

Post by Gilly » Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:59 pm

BenJMan wrote: When ever I see you post Gill I have the instant reaction of wanting to do what family guy does to Meg and just post 'Shut up Gilly.' I couldn't tell you why.. I just find it funny :D
shut up Ben

( ;) )
ell wrote: While I wouldn't begrudge the trainees somewhere safe to discuss course stuff, I don't think it should be done in order to prevent us underlings seeing potentially anxiety provoking things. I think the honesty about training (when it happens; I do appreciate it might be repressed sometimes) is a really important and helpful element of the forum. If we shut away all the negative stuff about training, is it not going to turn into even more of a Holy Grail?
agreed, and tongue was firmly in cheek re: anxiety provoking

but i think theres a difference between threads that might be useful to the wider forum and those which it may be useful to set up a peer support side of the forum, i didnt see it as a place to exclusively hide away the horror as it were.

side note: do we still consider it a holy grail?
Last edited by Gilly on Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: smiley didnt work...
You're not calling for help, are you?! ;)

"The problem with quotes on the Internet is that it is hard to verify their authenticity" - Abraham Lincoln.

User avatar
ell
Moderator
Posts: 2384
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2010 12:45 pm

Re: Trainee section?

Post by ell » Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:27 pm

Gilly wrote:side note: do we still consider it a holy grail?
No, I think you and I know enough that we now consider it a poisoned chalice, rather than a holy grail.

User avatar
Campion
Posts: 1186
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:28 pm

Re: Trainee section?

Post by Campion » Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:40 pm

ell wrote:My concern is that the forum would end up getting ever more segregated. Would we end up then with an AP section - to combat the 'I'm an AP, my wallet's too small for my twenties and my emerald shoes are too tight' thing...
..and a Non-psych part of the forum for me and Fuzzy to talk about how crazy all of you psych-type-people are while we're at it please.

Blatant reductio ad-absurdum on my part aside; the initial point of segregation is a valid one I think.

There is a qualified section and this works to provide a safe space for those with registration to seek advice from their peers; something that would be difficult to do on the open forum I'd wager. Even though it hasn't met the original goal of bringing more qualifieds to the main forum perhaps, it has worked in keeping those we do have posting in other areas of the forum, so to me it's met its purpose.

Although ostensibly this is none of my business, I would think we need to construct a good argument for a trainee section if we are to have one. Personally I would keep it as a section only for the qualifieds and the trainees, I wouldn't open it up to members, team members or moderators who aren't within that stage of the process as to me, this rather defeats the purpose (otherwise; to be blunt; you could just start a thread).


So for this section, personally, I'd ask the following questions...

What will it bring to the forum?
What risks to trainees will it potentially mitigate?
What risk to the core membership do we run by potentially segregating them from a knowledge base?
How do we identify who the trainees on the forum are?


If people agree that it suits the forum then I'm all for it... but if we need a trainee section, I think we need a better argument than has been presented so far.




Campion.
'Think how many blameless lives are brightened by the blazing indiscretions of other people.' - Saki.

User avatar
schizometric
Posts: 1229
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:20 pm
Location: Midlands

Re: Trainee section?

Post by schizometric » Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:07 pm

I agree with all the points presented so far. There are a mass of pros and cons. I think a poll might be helpful? We could potentially trial it and see how it is used and whether it is worthwhile if it looks like many people from the general forum are in favour....?
Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

User avatar
matt.berlin
Posts: 653
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:06 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Trainee section?

Post by matt.berlin » Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:12 pm

I'm feeling a lot of ambivalence towards this. It might be helpful, it might not. I think the real question has to be: What would a trainee section be for?
ell wrote:I think this discussion brings up a really good question though, one that I had been pondering myself recently a bit - why don't people stick around once they get onto training? It would be interesting to ask those people. Maybe even start a thread to ask? There are some people who were prolific posters and whose contribution dropped significantly after getting on training, but are still about. They may be able to shed some light on it. Is it purely a selfish thing, and the forum just isn't so useful for trainees' needs? Is it because training is quite time-consuming and they just don't have so much time to offer? Is it because training suddenly puts you into a new social group and suddenly trainees are out and about a lot more?
I think that the amount of time people have is one thing but not the most important. Also I have certainly been "out and about" a lot more with my cohort, but again that isn't something that would stop people per se.

For me, the issue is that trainees tend to be very well supported. I get 2 hours of supervision per week for a caseload of 6-8. From uni staff I can easily go to an individual tutor, a clinical year tutor, clinical director, academic year tutor, academic director. I have a small PPD group 3 times per 10 week term. There are external support systems too (e.g. personal advisor). Add to that I spend a lot of time with friends from my cohort and we support each other and bounce ideas of each other. This is very different to the experience of some people pre- or post-training, which can be fairly isolated. Therefore, there is perhaps less of a need. That doesn't mean that problems don't occur where it could be difficult to talk to supervisors, course staff, other trainees etc. but I think the circumstances where there isn't any support on hand are quite limited.

Also I think a lot of people use the forum as a means to getting onto training. So once they are on a course, the whole reason for being here goes. So perhaps we need to ask, is there anything that would make the forum more relevant to trainees, and if so what?
Ordnung ist das halbe Leben ... aber die andere Hälfte ist viel schöner!

User avatar
FuzzyDuck
Posts: 500
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:01 pm

Re: Trainee section?

Post by FuzzyDuck » Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:18 pm

I presented an argument that focussed on the shift in activity on the forum last time, as I'm in no place to judge the benefit of this to trainees, or the process of 'screening' them, and all that.

Every time we consider adding another section, the risk of cannibalising the forum's own output has to be weighed up against the potential benefit to the people the new section is aimed at. It's been said as much already, but part of the forum population could be displaced into the new section, leaving them to set up a new 'home' in that folder at the expense of contributing elsewhere.

Attention is finite and so part of the forum will be at a loss for people shifting their attention to a new section.

Conversely, could it attract more new members? And how well can we retain them when they're no longer trainees? We want people to stick around and for them to be part of the community as they progress.

As Campion also highlighted, what if it's the thin end of the wedge? Trainees have a section, why not APs (as Ell said), and why not a section for the few educational and health psychologists that post here while we're at it?

I'm not against the idea at all, but I think proceeding with caution is wise (as hyperbolic as this post is in places). The forum's split into 20 public sections already, and I don't think we want to spread it too thin, especially with a 'trainee section' seeming like quite a broad topic.

User avatar
BenJMan
Team Member
Posts: 2216
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:16 pm
Location: Lancashire

Re: Trainee section?

Post by BenJMan » Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:56 am

I think the argument that holds the most weight with me so far would be to create a 'Trainee Supervision' section, for use for questions which might need peer supervision but which would not be appropriate to the wider forum. My guess is that would be a very non busy section. It would need to be tightly regulated by our qualified Mods/Admins and any posts which could be placed elsewhere moved as appropriate. That said I'm still not overly sold..
I think a hero is any person really intent on making this a better place for all people ~ Maya Angelou.

astra
Posts: 2381
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:02 pm

Re: Trainee section?

Post by astra » Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:09 am

I think trainees have (or should have) more than enough supervision and support in placement and from their course and peers, so I'm not sure there's an argument for providing that on here. It is slightly different with qualified staff as we have proportionally less supervision and within a qualified role supervision is often vulnerable to being sidelined due to work pressures so we do set up peer groups and SIGs to supplement our regular supervision and this is just another place we can do that. If trainees routinely need more supervision than they are getting then something needs addressing at course and placement level. Having said all that, after an initial flurry, the qualified section has been extremely quiet and many of us have posted far more on the open forum than in the qualified section even since it opened, so whilst it felt like a necessary step, I think the reality is we didn't need it as badly as we thought we did. I like that it's there, but I wouldn't be devastated if it wasn't there. I think there's plenty of scope for trainees to create their own threads and people can choose to follow them or not. Trainees have every right to rant and moan about their stage of the career, just as do support workers, APs and qualified staff. It's not an easy career at any stage so the forum should be a place where people can reflect openly about that. If people don't want to hear about the woes of trainees, they can opt not to read it surely! Meaningful thread titles can help with that a bit. Well that's my two penn'orth.
From the point of view of mindfulness, as long as you're breathing there's more right with you than wrong with you. Jon Kabat-Zinn

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest