Application “honesty”

Discuss applications to the clearing house (and to courses that are not in the clearing house system), screening assessments, interviews, reserve lists, places, etc. here
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Riquelme7
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Application “honesty”

Post by Riquelme7 » Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:51 pm

Hello, this post may be out of frustration but I would like opinion and advice.
I know someone who has basically got someone else to modify very heavily their application, personal statement and other areas.
It bothers me as essentially it feels as if they have not done it themselves and have benefited hugely from a more experienced person. I’m talking heavy modifications.
I don’t feel it’s a genuine application and am frustrated that honest people like myself work hard on our application, and are given pointers on feedback, not given the final answer if that makes sense.

There is a part of me that feels like reporting this person as I genuinely do not think it is fair- if you can’t even write a personal statement / application then you shouldn’t be applying.

Do I:
- report them
- discuss with supervisor my feelings about this
- wait and see if they get sussed out at interview stage
- forget them and focus on myself

Thanks,

Frustrated honest hardworking applicant.

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Geishawife
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Re: Application “honesty”

Post by Geishawife » Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:14 pm

I would say forget them and focus on yourself. I do understand your frustration at a person having received that amount of help, but what will it benefit you if you report it? How are you going to prove your suspicions? Will it make any difference toYOUR chances of being accepted if you report it? I very much doubt it. Plus, you don't really know why this person has received this amount of help or if it will actually make their application any stronger. Moreover, if they are "fabricating" their application (and again, we don't actually know that)and are genuinely NOT ready for training this will show further down the line. So, just let them get on with things and focus instead on making your application as strong as it can be.

As a general observation (this is NOT directed at you, Riquelme7) I think people can spend too much time worrying about what other applicants are doing and trying to second guess what the short listers are looking for. It's far more productive to focus that energy on getting their own application as reflective and strong as possible. Then you stand as good a chance as any other applicant.

lakeland
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Re: Application “honesty”

Post by lakeland » Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:15 pm

I agree with Geishawife here. I can see that this is definitely something that would be frustrating, but agree that there's probably little you can practically do. If someone has a form that doesn't reflect what they really know, this will undoubtedly trip them up at interview and they will hopefully learn that there's more to having someone experienced write their form.

I'm qualified, and I'm not even sure I'd be able to write a form that would guarantee someone an interview at a course, as there's no way of really describing what makes a form stand out. I think I know a good form when I see it, but I don't think I could quantify what it is and then replicate that for someone else.

Definitely discuss in supervision though, and see what you get from that.

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miriam
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Re: Application “honesty”

Post by miriam » Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:39 pm

I found out someone had literally plagiarised chunks of someone else's application and made some enquiries about whether there was a means to report this to the clearing house or courses concerned. The feedback was that basically there isn't, and that we just have to have faith that these candidates don't pass through the interview process.

And from experience I have to say that with such tough competition I can only think of about five CPs in my whole career to date who I believe shouldn't have got onto training, and one of them dropped out from the course, and one got suspended by the HCPC, so the filtering systems seem pretty good.
Miriam

See my blog at http://clinpsyeye.wordpress.com

Riquelme7
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Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:19 pm

Re: Application “honesty”

Post by Riquelme7 » Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:54 pm

miriam wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:39 pm
And from experience I have to say that with such tough competition I can only think of about five CPs in my whole career to date who I believe shouldn't have got onto training, and one of them dropped out from the course, and one got suspended by the HCPC, so the filtering systems seem pretty good.
Thanks, I have hope the system can catch them out.
lakeland wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:15 pm
I'm qualified, and I'm not even sure I'd be able to write a form that would guarantee someone an interview at a course, as there's no way of really describing what makes a form stand out. I think I know a good form when I see it, but I don't think I could quantify what it is and then replicate that for someone else.

Definitely discuss in supervision though, and see what you get from that.
More than one way to skin a cat I suppose. Yes I will discuss in supervision...pitfalls of working with other APs, the ones that don’t pull their weight.
Geishawife wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:14 pm
As a general observation (this is NOT directed at you, Riquelme7) I think people can spend too much time worrying about what other applicants are doing and trying to second guess what the short listers are looking for. It's far more productive to focus that energy on getting their own application as reflective and strong as possible. Then you stand as good a chance as any other applicant.
Yes true, there are thousands of candidates- if I was at another service I would have no knowledge of this behaviour and just be focusing on myself. Best thing Is to just make mine as strong as possible.

Still frustrating, having literally saw the person heavily adjust their form next to me, I was shocked at how much of an improvement they put in to it. Will discuss my feelings in supervision.

bob1
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Re: Application “honesty”

Post by bob1 » Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:29 am

I've helped many students and APs with their forms over the years. Some have come to me with terrible forms that completely do not sell them at all. They have then listened to the feedback and we have often spent many meetings together with them acting on the feedback and refining and refining their form until they are happy with it. If you compared the first and last versions of their forms there would be a massive difference in a positive direction. I don't see anything wrong with this. In fact, I think it is very good to seek the feedback and support. How else do we learn if not from seeking feedback and striving to improve? The next time the same person applies (and in most of the cases where substantial improvements are needed, there is usually a few more tries at the application process necessary, as they aren't quite there yet) they won't need so much support as they have learnt from the feedback given. When people are so keen to learn from feedback, to seek me out to support them, and to try and improve themselves and their forms, I tend to think these are signs that they will perhaps make a (very) good trainee (even if that is not yet, but in the future).

I'd concentrate on your own form, and perhaps seek some feedback yourself. I doubt very much that any qualified CP would write someone's form for them, but if the CP has helped a person learn and develop and significantly improve their form, then great!

bob1
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Re: Application “honesty”

Post by bob1 » Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:37 am

p.s. Didn't read your post properly! Yes, there is a big difference in seeking feedback and working hard to refine and refine your form, and having someone else write it for you! If the person you are talking about has done the latter, I would wonder who had written it for them and how you know this. If the person is a qualified CP, I'd be v v surprised as we are bound by a code of ethics. If it's not a qualified CP, then they may very well not really know what is required of the form anyway, so I doubt it will make a massive difference to the candidate's chances of success. As others have said, if the candidate really is dis-honest and not able to complete their own form, they will be found out further down the line. Focus on yourself, but do seek feedback on your own form as seeking feedback and support and advice is positive.

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