Discontinued Counselling Psychology Doctorates???

Discuss the content and style of the different clinical psychology doctoral training courses, the differences between them, placements, teaching, chat to other trainees and connect with other people who have places on the same course
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meem123
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Discontinued Counselling Psychology Doctorates???

Post by meem123 »

I've noticed quite a few unis are dropping the "Counselling Psychology" doctorate. Surrey, Regents, Southampton have all dropped it in the past year.....it is really odd. I thought it would be quite a lucrative income for the unis?? Anyone any ideas why? I'm worried they know something I don't! Like is the qualification going to become obsolete in the future?
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mungle
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Re: Discontinued Counselling Psychology Doctorates???

Post by mungle »

Given the intensive teaching they are not lucrative and may actually be loss leaders. Given the difficult financial times for many universities, some have reviewed their portfolio of programmes and decided to drop the doctorates in counselling psychology.
meem123
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Re: Discontinued Counselling Psychology Doctorates???

Post by meem123 »

Really? 15 students each paying £10,000 a year…£150,000…that’s at least 2 full time tutors 🤨
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mungle
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Re: Discontinued Counselling Psychology Doctorates???

Post by mungle »

Think of an undergrad psychology course where you have maybe 100+ students paying £9k+ and their contact time might include some seminars of about 20 students, a little 1:1 time for a dissertation and lectures with 100 students in them. Their total contact hours tend to be considerably less than someone on a counselling psychology doctorate.

From the fees, probably over 50% or maybe considerably more, (I have been quoted as much as 90% of fees) doesn't stay in the School but goes to the central University. There are costs such as estates, utilities, cleaning, HR, libraries, cleaning staff, administrators, executives, marketing, research, vice chancellor salaries and so much more.

Even if the programme kept all the fee income with none going to the central university budgets, the £150k is actually not enough to pay for the staff team for a doctorate in counselling psychology. You need teaching staff to fulfil roles such as programme lead, professors, clinical tutors, research tutors, a placement coordinator, ordinary teaching, examiners for theses and perhaps also external teachers to come in.
Let's say you want to employ someone on the equivalent of band 8a you need not only their salary but pension, training, expenses etc. Usually there is a figure of "on costs" to cover these things and HR, IT etc. per head. You'll need someone at a higher level than 8a to lead the course.

We should probably be asking questions of why so little of the money goes on teaching. Believe me when I say the teaching staff aren't being paid the big bucks. Many of these programmes rely on poorly paid adjuncts on zero hours contracts for at least some of the teaching, marking and research supervision.

The NHS pays more per year to the Uni for each dclinpsy student - £16,358 according to this HEE document (p.21) from 2016. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... report.pdf
meem123
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Re: Discontinued Counselling Psychology Doctorates???

Post by meem123 »

Hmm okay good point.
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